[2.43.S] Bring your ideas/suggestions here 1 last time.

And then what about if 2 vamps come to your wall early with x4 inferno rains releasing a small 12k damage with about 1370 or something HP left on your kilo, as well as them teaming on it afterwards would out dps even horses I'm sure if they've got even a little damage. Seems like an early trump card to wipe out 1 player at the start. This isn't exactly at least in my case that "Sometimes happens", when there's 2 friendly vamps who whenever they play already have it planned out give you basically no chance. Maybe if there was a counter to this? Unless we'll leave it with as a thing but I'm sure they could probably use it 2-3 times before people start upgrading to Megabytes which seems a bit OP if you ask me.

Also another idea I've come up with now is increasing how much the human peasant can Mana burn throughout the game, possibly using research from T2 and T3? I'd say around the same time Vamps can start getting death tomes would be good. I don't know if having research locked until a specific time in the game is possible no matter when you built that building but it might be a good idea to still leave use for it later on.

As for vamps since it may seem fairly Human sided already you could add a teleport skill with a cooldown and then humans definitely wouldn't always be able to go for traps so easily unless they have Battle Slayers lol.

Apple.Time wrote:Early  mana burn is enough to prevent a vamp from using x2 Infierno on a bytewall. And you just have to up to kilobyte or using your horses before the vamp starts to hit the wall ( well not talking about a vamp which would up his str and dmg stats early ). 
Some vamps are using Infierno rains just to crack open their way in, but in my opinion I prefer to use them to destroy upped fire tower and frosty, or gold mines when they are in range. 
The human game play is already safe as it is. 
Yeah it's frustrating when suddenly a vamp kill your bytewall, using x2 Infierno, but s*** happens 

Thats not true, inferno costs 1k mana per usage, a manaburn is only 500. Vamps often have around 2k8 mana when level 7-8, so in no way does mana burn help the slightest. I am not saying that inferno rain should get removed, its a great spell , but in no way does it justify the cost of 80g for that much damge.

I really like Leo's idea for a human t2-t3 Mana Burn upgrade, cause throughout the game, vamps levels ofc increase and therefore their mana gets higher and higher, so maybe a mana burn increase could do something idk.


But for the inferno rain, ik there are especially two players in the game who really enjoy teaming a base early on in game and using x4 inferno rain. Maybe we can have a cooldown for inferno rains? So if one vamp uses an inferno rain, that same vamp will have to wait another 30 seconds or something before using another one in his inventory? You could still team, but now the most damage two vamps can do is x2 inferno rain instead of x4.

i am a user for that kind of behavior and i think that that the only way to get another vamp to do it is when they trust the other and they might need 8 for kilobyte, me and and corn have tested it out and i just saw humans never mana burned us 


so  Inferno Rain is not op. only to teamers it is


means up towers and beat them to the op game and get mana towers if you're teaming with someone and mana burn one of the vamps so there goes 1k mana for them not to use 




ps  Inferno Rain is only used on the most pro player in the game and wreck them

I recommend reading my post regarding mana. So yes, it is pretty op for just 80g.

And regarding mana tower, one costs 15g, so a complete waste of gold early game. The cost could also be reduced to 1g like a frost tower, but i guess that would make mana tower too good.

Winbudwin wrote:i am a user for that kind of behavior and i think that that the only way to get another vamp to do it is when they trust the other and they might need 8 for kilobyte, me and and corn have tested it out and i just saw humans never mana burned us 


so  Inferno Rain is not op. only to teamers it is


means up towers and beat them to the op game and get mana towers if you're teaming with someone and mana burn one of the vamps so there goes 1k mana for them not to use 




ps  Inferno Rain is only used on the most pro player in the game and wreck them

"they might need 8 for kilobyte" Can you explain what you mean by this?

Even with Mana towers they could easily do inferno, unless you consider the possibility of them attacking your wall for 30+ seconds before using Inferno otherwise the towers would have no use as they don't drain a huge amount of a short amount of time. I can understand 1 vamp using x2 Inferno rains to take down a player whose still on byte but when 2 Vamps are used to give a player no chance it seems a bit unbalanced if you ask me. "Simply because that player is good we might as well take him out early with this impeccable strategy". Damn I wish I had a card like that for Psyscope every time I played against him ^^

I feel like even double teaming should be considered to be banned or nerfed in anyway unless its required (1 Vampire is trapped) or the vampires have no other choice but to team (Last Human Peasant). But I guess you could argue with some humans not worth going to to feed that pose to much of a risk so both vampires find a new human to feed on together by sitting on their wall until 30 minutes. Good players either get attacked within the first 10 minutes and then not till after 30 minutes when Vamps have been fed off the new players and now it all comes down to whether they got enough feed from them to beat the good players they've been laying off for last. If not, humans win by default within the next 10-15 minutes as they make their 500k wall/200k towers preventing Vamps from feeding any longer.

Seems a bit unrealistic to question the way the game has always been like this supposedly, there always needs to be feed to balance it out but this feed factor is such an unbalanced method to balance the game as the potential for too much or too little feed varies so much in between games. The games may as well be determined from the lobby. This is going a bit off topic so I won't really argue about the game itself as its always been like that and there's no current solution I could come up for it.

Getting back to the topic at hand, I do think inferno rain should be looked over mathematically with price in mind as well as double teaming in mind but that could just be considered Vamps being sly and their own type of gameplay that we look over? I know some players that get 4k damage from damage tomes early on before even 12 minutes and combined with a little 160 gold for 6k damage on a kilobyte I can only imagine the destruction that'd have on anyone for such a cheap price. Maybe simply slightly rising the total HP of the Kilobyte for there to be a little room to work with after getting dosed with 12k output on a 13750 HP wall with 2 vamps still there to attack it afterwards. But most definitely the price pointed out by Shadow is the bigger concern here as 80 Gold is definitely too cheap for such a useful item in the beginning.

Just wanted to let you all know i am still reading and looking for points to change/add/inprove/ so keep em coming thank you

I think he means 8 inferno rains for kilo, but 4 would be enough (4 * 3k = 12k damage)

I want to discuss your point regarding teaming vamps - if the game allows teaming, then it should be allowed. I don't care if vamps get overfed or not, most people will agree that teaming is a "'New player'" move, but it still shouldn't be forbidden if the game allows it. I mean there are pez who also duo in a base, I consider that to be a greater 'New player' move than teaming vamps, but no one complains about that. So no, I wouldn't do anything against teaming vamps.

And yes, this is correct, you could say that the result of a game could be determined in the lobby, but that's just how the game works. Skill level, luck, bad luck, ping, etc... - all those are factors which determine if a game is going to be won by pez or vamps.
I agree, feed could get balanced, the question is how? I have a recommendation - when a base gets destroyed by a vamp, then make it possible for other slayers to attack buildings in said base. Make it so that a slayer could two hit a building and destroy it. Maybe change it up for high value buildings, like t2, t3, star towers - 4 to 5 hits for such towers for example.

I won't discuss inferno rain any further, all that had to be said has been said already

Edit: Interesting, n00b gets changed into "New player" lol

A few extra little ideas :

Have a record system for fastest T1/T2/T3 if possible where it announces the fastest time for all of those. This of course has the problem of people getting friends to play as vamps to help them beat it and the fact that so many records have already been set before but apart from that might be something to look into for people to try and beat. Will maybe get the point of trying to get the next tier as fast as possible is one of the most crucial steps to survival as a human in Vampirism Ultra.

The "Panic" skill/spell, if you could make it x2 repair/build speed too it might have a little more use or maybe that'd be OP but at least double build speed would seem like a nice little perk.

Another one, the "spy" that the vamps can buy in the shop maybe make that spy have the ability to transform to any selected unit, probably not heroes or bouncers but so that the can actually blend in... Only problem is towers will still automatically kill so they'd still be terrible. Maybe make it so its impossible to teleport to them or that they can't be attacked by towers unless exposed aka someone is teleporting to it and it reveals the spy. You could make it so if you click on the spy you'd see in the name that its a spy or something. I can't really think of an idea for how this would work without knowing what the wc3 game engine is capable of.

I'd say remove the sheep spell item as it seems pretty useless to be honest, could remove the spy too instead of all the hassle.

-1 With Leo.

I use the sheep spell

xutopia wrote:-1 With Leo.

I use the sheep spell

Sheep Shagger confirmed, pls ban this creep. 

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